story-rich is when Works have a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and /or character development.
Applied
A given work is story-rich when it has a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and /or character development.
note Exemples: I will make a single woman my wife / Isekai Furin / Drama Queens / Netori Mahoutsukai no Bouken
After much thought, I came to be convinced that story rich is a better tag overall
Name
-plot-heavy
+story rich
Description
-plot-heavy / story-rich is when Works have a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and character development.
+story-rich is when Works have a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and /or character development.
Changed so this can have the description of what boiled down from the comments. Now the discussion is only up for if it will be plot-heavy or story-rich
Description
-plot-heavy / plot-focused is when a series has exposed sex so its not ecchi but its also mostly focused on the story, exemple is Netori Mahoutsukai no Bouken and the Ponhwa Circles / Drama Queens.
+plot-heavy / story-rich is when Works have a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and character development.
Note
-It's different form the story-arc tag because it would exclude the ones where there's a backstory for like ten pages and then the next 90 is all sex. Letting people who want to enjoy a spicy STORY separate whats an adult story and what is drawn porn.
+Exemples: I will make a single woman my wife / Isekai Furin / Drama Queens / Netori Mahoutsukai no Bouken
-Hey guys just letting you know I added suggestion editing ;)
+plot-heavy / plot-focused is when a series has exposed sex so its not ecchi but its also mostly focused on the story, exemple is Netori Mahoutsukai no Bouken and the Ponhwa Circles / Drama Queens.
Fuck it Lets go!
Cultured ones, come with me again in createtaghigh stim+6 so that we have a way to sort out the brain rot -like from the gems in this place
I still have some misgiving about the tag name itself (there's a more definitive term for this I think) but the tag name can be changed at a later date. @ranchdong description should be okay though. For now.
I think that is a perfect description, ranchdog. No problem with me and the discussion seems to have stabilized and your description doesn't change anything substancial and only perfects it, I think it can be accepted like that
How about something like this for description I feel like it flows a bit better "A given work is story-rich when it has a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered with external events and /or character development."
I said "I don't use reddit." I never said that I don't have an account. I'm not the only one who don't use reddit and reddit is not a place where we can be ourselves without consequences... So many people got banned or worse for it. If I could decribe reddit with one or more words, it wold be a very "toxic" environment.
Zedratuguir2 Fort that we have the subreddit, this taxonomy function already adds plenty of complexity to an independent website, a discussion tab would effectively turn this into a social media platform and bring too much work to the admin that woulnd't necesserily add to the user experience
And this right there is why I have suggested the creation of a "recommendations space" on the community space. (I said it on the renameshielder→mash kyrielight+3233)
would there be anyone to remember this story abt a male tutor coming to home to teach a lil girl after someday he try to make a move on her but she rejects but later on she feel sad and have sex with him the girl has chubby friend from what i remember it was a long story arc at the end we that friend of her finds out that the tutor was not a good guy and he was just using her then the girl and guy broke up and at very last the guy invites the girl to a hotel and there she finds her frnd with another guy thats all i remember btw i think i came this year hoping that someone would know
Huge thanks to Ranch and the admins for the update (I know I’m slow lol)
Huge thanks to Lenga, Archwizard and Osamu for your discussion! Youse are correct that ’story-rich’ is better than ’plot-focused’.
I very much like the new name and description Lenga! I would edit it slightly while keeping your sex-scene-bit:
”Works with a rich story: a detailed, multi-layered narrative experience containing external events and character development; rather than majority sex scenes”
Please excuse my lacking English knowledge on how to build the full sentence. Also, this might still feel a bit fuzzy on where to draw the line on what is story-rich — I’ll leave these things to yall.
@ranchdong thank you for these super helpful!! no need to apologize, it's best to take your time than rush and churn out a half-baked feature or, worse, burn yourself out
Apologies for the derail; but just wanted to let y'all know you can now edit your own suggestions. My hope is people that make suggestions (and eventually mods) will be able to fully prep a suggestion so us admins can just quick glance and approve or reject instead of having to parse a lot of comments. I know this puts a lot of responsibility on suggestion creators but hopefully its a good step to help move things along going forward. I also plan to remove or more likely raise the cap on one account suggestions limit. Finally you can now always delete / withdraw your suggestions now even if it has votes. I hope this wont be abused to much but its a compromise I made. Anyways I'll add more soon sorry for the long wait.
At the end of the day, I think that "story-rich" with a "Works with a narrative experience that is highly detailed and multi-layered external events and character development." description is the middle ground everyone would agree on at least for now and would have a more general application.
Personally I would also put a "rather than focusing just on the sexual scenes" because it would help signal that this splits the focus between on and off the bedroom development because, as some pointed out, character development and other events can also happen during sex.
On that note, a "slow-burn" tag to describe a work where the sexual relationship between the characters takes time meaningful development to happen would be sensation in my opinion but I don't have more suggestions in the bag
I just want to point out that people didn't vote this because the original description was accurate or anything. They likely just wanted a tag like this and "plot-heavy" seemed like an acceptable name. I'm in fact one of those people
@Aelter I don't think "plot-heavy" and "plot-focused" are different at all, even if there was an actual difference like one just describes "the plot is an important part of the work" while the other "the plot is the most important part of the work", differentiating them in this context doesn't seem worthwhile
anyway, for this tag itself what I would do is to make the description very specific so later we can always merge it with a broader tag. Something like "The work contains multiple major events (e.g. a confession, a new character, a power-up) and at least one plot twist."
I definitely agree with @Aelter (and which I also pointed out earlier "I only asked you [lenga] to do a overhaul of your definition with the storytelling type now in mind"), we need to fix this. No way I'm going to have an aspiring hentai doujin writer in the future look at the skewed definition of plot-heavy and go "wait, wut!?" and put us here in the community in a bad spot. That's going to suck.
@lenga You're not being crucified here, we all make mistakes and that includes me. But what we can do is to help find and correct those mistakes, as a healthy non-toxic community should be (well this taxonomy section of nhentai community anyway). You should try and post further opinion of this as the OP, this proposal is your baby after all.
I say someone should just go ahead and create a new [story-rich] proposal or what have you, then post the link here to notify. As for this tag proposal, to quote on my previous link https://nybookeditors.com/2017/02/character-driven-vs-plot-driven-best/ :
"When you focus on plot, you focus on events.
Plot-driven stories are often exciting and fast-paced. They compel the reader to turn the page to find out how the characters will escape, evade, prevail, or overcome.
As an author of a plot-driven story, you have to meticulously tie together plot points to create a cohesive story. You naturally focus on ideas instead of people and their motivations.
In your story, you force your characters to make quick decisions that move the plot forwards. As a result, character development is secondary to plot development."
New suggested definition:
Works that are plot-heavy have a story that is more driven by plot rather than character development.
(I'm assuming that the majority agrees to the recent drama's points due to the lack of reactions. Prove me wrong by doing so. :p )
@Aelter I'm against using 'plot-focused' if it's for OP's original purposes because it is considered synonymous with 'plot-heavy' and the opposite of 'character-focused'. 'Story-rich' is the term I'll be using temporarily for lack of a better term. Otherwise I have no immediate objections.
[Story arc] tag is to be used as a good place to start for finding 'story rich' doujins in the future due to its inherently long pages required for stories to develop more deeply, and is not merely to be used as an absolute substitute per se. I did said "the [story arc] tag should be enough" but I also said "describestory arcaccepted may be similar... in usage" which is from what I see is the current workaround.
FIFTHLY and FINALLY...
I am downvoting this suggestion.
IMO, the tag name should be 'plot-focused' or 'story-rich'.
Now listen, this is the most important of all:
What we ALL want here is a tag that is not shy to flavour our H-meal with loads of real fleshed-out story. Let's focus on what we agree on, what we are after, rather than superfluous lexical intricacies. Thousands of people seem to want a tag for this. We owe them and the site to set things straight.
Let's overhaul this whole discussion and start from the beginning.
I'll return later to help with problemsolving, suggestions and examples; but now I am tired. Been working on nHentai tags for hours now.
FOURTHLY...
The original suggested tag description is very poor.
And the last suggester iteration "Plot-heavy describes a story, single or series where a significant portion of it's length focus on external events through complex sequence of incidents and character psychological development." is 1. wrong; 2. missing the point; 3. chatbot-esque.
...
ARE WE THIS LOST, PEOPLE??
I know I'm dunking a lot on Lenga (sorry pal <3 ) but this is all our responsibility. 1650 upvotes? With only 75 downvotes?
We. Are. Better. Than. This!
This is nHentai!!
THIRDLY...
What is more, Lenga talked about this being an established term in media while 'story rich' is not, with no sources other than "Google" whatever that means? I had my suspicions and after typing in 'plot-heavy' into Google I discovered (you know what's coming) THAT ENTIRE DESCRIPTION WAS JUST AI SLOP ALL ALONG. Google's chatbot service Gemini gave Lenga the answer they wrote, with its own laughable source Reddit.
Lenga added that 'plot-heavy' is "more widespread and immediatly recognizable and intuitive" than 'story rich'. Wow what a subjective take... And unfortunately it's incorrect as well: Comparing the terms on Google Trends reveals that 'story rich' wins by miles and miles.
Even comparing "plot heavy" with "story rich" shows the latter winning since the beginning, and putting a hyphen in the middle of each term shows, again, "story-rich" winning over "plot-heavy".
Five people including me are explicitly preferring 'story-rich', a commentary majority. Address it!
SECONDLY...
The term 'plot-heavy' is severely misunderstood here. It has something to do with 'plot', yes, but yall forgot the second half 'heavy'! Heavy does not simply mean 'focused', it signifies that the work is HEAVY with plot. Have you ever seen a film with too many plot points?
As the Archwizard has pointed out ("something is amiss here") that's right Lenga changed "rather than" into "and". In other words they change a "and is NOT" into a "and IS". They also changed the plot being the "primary focus" into being "evenly split" with character depth. This is false.
A 'plot-heavy' work focuses on plot RATHER than the characters' complex feelings, RATHER than long environmental descriptions, RATHER than cute girls doing cute things.
Please note, it doesn't have to be a bad thing! There is a certain BIG BRAIN satisfaction that comes with breaking down the intricacies, twists and turns that have been thrown at you for 100 pages, figuring it all out as it drops on the MC like a bomb
Holy... I've never peeked in here but now that I have... Time to set things straight!
FIRSTLY...
'story arc', despite its confusing name, is NOT about how much of the gallery is focused on story. It simply means the gallery have a coherent "story" which spans several chapters. That "story" could be all fucking and no talking, but it HAS to be at least 4 chapters or 75 pages.
(Now... IF it's paired with the 'tankoubon' tag, at least half of the tankou has to be a single story.)
So, that tag simply conveys that the gallery contains a longer work spanning multiple chapters, nothing else! Not how story-rich it is or whatnot.
@ranchdong Personally I'd go for my recent suggestion so there's no future issue, but whatever is decided by admins and works for this community is fine by me.
@Wholesome_only_pls The [story arc] tag should be enough for series like those, plot-heavy and character-heavy stories are to be used to series that heavily skews toward one or the other.
Honestly I think it's almost there although I agree with the person below me because it could be plot-heavy but not necessarily character-heavy and vice versa. Because if we consider both then the best I can give as an example is literally ##48354|Honey Blonde|25,425
Or the honey blonde series by fukudahda
Heck even that one already is 215 pages without considering the follow ups which are ##399356|Honey Blonde Sakura|19,549, ##453088|Honey Blonde ~Himawari~|8,416 and ##568544|Honey Blonde ~Margaret~|7,093
You could literally say is has plot while at the same time develops the characters too.
It's kinda confusing if we're just looking at it from face value, but overall this can be very helpful especially for those who's looking for plots like me. Otherwise, still needs review or tweaking.
If we'll go for 'narrative-heavy' or 'story-rich' or what have you then it's going to be the main tag, then plot-heavy and character-heavy would be subtags. Better off making a new proposal for those.
describestory arcaccepted may be similar to 'narrative-heavy' in usage, so that's out. Still no proposal on character-heavy.
@40-sai_archwizard the explanation on character-heavy is pretty interesting. Honestly to me "plot" meant anything that's not sexual content. And I honestly wouldn't mind using a slightly incorrect name for this tag
I was thinking "story rich" would then be the solution. But after asking chatGPT it seems "story" is a bit different and in a sense independent from "plot". Basically story can include things like lore, backstory, world building, while "plot" is the sequence of events and how they relate to each other
In the end it suggested "narrative-heavy" to include all of those tags, I think it would be a good compromise
@lenga I wasn't precise on the "something is amiss here" part due to message text limitations so I'll spell it out now: you took the term from Google by your own admission, to quote "plot-heavy is already a established term in media, Google:" then twisted the definition to suit your tastes by swapping RATHER THAN into AND. That is not how rewriting the definition should be done. The community obviously failed to call you out on this, and I also feel rather sheepish for not noticing it sooner.
I already established that plot-heavy is a type of storytelling (character-heavy is another), Google it yourself if in doubt. Softcore is a different tag altogether. I only brought it out because of your original definition. I only asked you to do a overhaul of your definition with the storytelling type now in mind, like I said "it would be a waste to reject this tag proposal". See? I am not against the tag itself, just fix the definition to reflect to what it should be.
I also think softcore as a tag described by the op doesn't mean the same as proposed here, so I don't think a merge/overhaul would work. The pornhwa/hentai I mentioned aren't softcore, they have explicit sex scenes that take up a long sequence of pages so it has almost nothing in common with "A type of genre that is composed with almost revealing outfits, semi-sex, and devoid of any private parts."
I beg to differ from the latest 40-sai archwizard's comments, plot-heavy as a means to identify works more focused on character development and external events is what most people would search plot-heavy / story rich for, it's more generalistic then creating plot-heavy and character heavy and honestly most works would have both because we wouldn't expend too much time going deep into things to differentiate the tags.
As for the original tag description "plot-heavy / plot-focused is when a series has exposed sex so its not ecchi but its also mostly focused on the story, exemple is Netori Mahoutsukai no Bouken and the Ponhwa Circles / Drama Queens" this more closely tunes in to createtagsoftcore+3 now that I think about it. The softcore tag is already suggested, and it would be a waste to reject this tag proposal, so again a overhaul is needed.
Did you know that in storytelling there are two main types, the plot-heavy and the character-heavy?
https://nybookeditors.com/2017/02/character-driven-vs-plot-driven-best/
https://www.reddit.com/answers/1697b7d8-0261-4329-b29e-aeb3536b0330/?q=Meaning+of+plot-heavy+in+storytelling&source=PDP&tl=en
In a nutshell, plot-heavy stories focus more on plot, character-heavy stories focus more on character. This is irrespective of whether or not the work is erotic (hentai) in nature and how much percentage of it is smutty. Therefore works like #129595|Peace Hame! Ge|73,708 can be considered to be more plot-heavy, #616358|Metamorphosis|17,571 is definitely character-heavy.
With this in mind, the description needs reworking. Also since I am already tapped out on the number of proposal submissions, the 'character-heavy' tag proposal is now up for grabs.
Alright, so I've done a bit of digging because I've felt that something is amiss here. OP before posted "Plot-heavy describes a story, book, or movie where the primary focus is on external events, action, twists, and a complex sequence of incidents RATHER THAN deep psychological exploration of the characters. In plot-heavy works, the narrative momentum drives the reader forward", yes? I highlighted the 'rather than' for emphasis.
Next was the suggested "Plot-heavy describes a story, single or series where the focus is more evenly split between external events, action, twists, and a complex sequence of incidents AND character psychological development than sex scenes", also the recent "Plot-heavy describes a story, single or series where a significant portion of it's length focus on external events through complex sequence of incidents AND character psychological development." The 'and' is highlighted this time.
The description is flawed from the very beginning.
Plot-heavy describes a story, single or series where a significant portion of it's length focus on external events through complex sequence of incidents and character psychological development.
Is this good enough now @ranchdong?
With 1egic0 on positioning this as subset, since tags are not mutually exclusive anyway.
Story arc can be for more general long form story. While plot heavy is used as filter (include or exclude) the plot heavy things.
Also remove the hassle of resorting through backlog of existing entries tagged with both.
@40-sai_archwizad metamorphosis isn't plot-heavy, at least not as @lenga described it. "the focus is more evenly split" between the sex scenes and the rest. In metamorphosis the sex scenes are clearly the main focus, the longest pause is at the very beginning when it introduces the story and it's like 6 pages, everything else is barely a pause and it's there just to set up the next sex scene. Once again "plot-heavy" should be different from "story arc"
"Works with the plot-heavy tag describes a standalone or series where there's more emphasis on the storyline, events, plot twists, and/or character development."
I brushed up @lenga description a bit and removed the "don't necessarily involve sex". Metamorphosis is the perfect example of a plot-heavy work where the sex scenes are deemed an absolute necessity, while one can simply add the [non-h] (or the proposed 'softcore') tag for works with barely any sex scenes.
I think your most recent description is almost there lenga but it needs a bit of cleanup its a bit of a run-on sentence i think if you took out "that don't necessarily involve sex" it might flow better
I think you can just set an objective measure for something like this where "if %50> of the pages are relegated to contributing to story/lore/characters outside of the sex" that would be useful enough, anything else is too subjective
