Merge: gender change → gender bender » nhentai

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merge held 154d ago

tag gender change 1.1k tag gender bender 16.9k

note Theres no difference, is there? Redundant tag.

reviewHeld for an admin

ranchdong I've thought about this for a bit and my major concern is merges are destructive and lossy. Meaning if there is value in keeping them separate then we should. If there is legit no value and just a mistake of the past then merge is fine here

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@ranchdong would it be possible to simply have tags redirect to the merged tag? That way merging is non-destructive.

One thing to note is, on the upload site, gender bender has been redirected to gender change. It's probably too late to change anyone's mind, but it is important to know.

A note from the admin: "I've thought about this for a bit and my major concern is merges are destructive and lossy. Meaning if there is value in keeping them separate then we should. If there is legit no value and just a mistake of the past then merge is fine here" If this goes through, then all the other listed gender change tags below should be merged into one as well, at the risk of potential crapping out of the new tag like what happened before with merge sousou no frieren | frieren beyond journeys end sousou no frieren accepted. Either go all-in or don't.

It's not nitpicking when it is basically the whole reason why this proposal was made in the first place @Osamu09. Anyway, we both made summations as to why this should be accepted or rejected, the final call is now up to admins. Hope this gets resolved soon, I personally really like to get rid of this here on Trending, there's still over 3000+ entries left to settle.

@40-sai_archwizard rejecting the suggestion based on that little note is kind of nitpicking. It's also not really a resounding "no". There are differences, but the point is that they've been used interchangeably. In fact, the score is very positive, the people disagreeing are the minority, and none of the counterarguments are enough to justify a rejection. That's only made worse by the fact that the naysayers don't agree between themselves overall I think it's better to merge tags now with generic descriptions so that later we can create subtags with specific descriptions rather than having the subtags already and having to figure out their meaning

We can go on and on about what the definitions are, but we can at least agree that there are distinctions, right? So to address the original purpose of this merging proposal "Theres no difference, is there? Redundant tag" the answer should be a big fat NO. There shouldn't be a problem rejecting this therefore. @ admins if you're going to reject this then kindly please reject merge gender morph gender bender +14 as well. In the meantime bring your definition debates on the other proposals: describe gender bender +76 describe gender change +68 create tag gender swap +1 describe gender morph +159

gender change is when a charactger changes gender IN a story, whereas gender bender is when a character's gender is changed FOR the story. Gender change is "All for one gives deku a quirk that turns him into a woman" whereas gender bender is "doujin where deku is a woman and its always been that way" they are very different

What about merging the two of them and creating a 'non-canon gender' tag? The reason for merge is that there are more galleries using the tag for gender change as a part of a plot, rather than something that is used as a setting.

Gender bender are more famous and more used generally. My first gender bender anime are ranma 1/2. I always thing changing gender in fiction as gender bender, i think this good to remind peoples that this is fictional.

Idk where people are coming up with these new definitions from. "gender bender" has been an official genre for decades and "gender change" comes from very literary translating 性転換 so it means the same thing

As Cherry said, these are different tags. Gender Bender is a parity tag where an established character from another IP appears in the piece of work as the opposite gender. While Gender Change is, for lack of a better word, an event tag that describes a character changing from one gender to another during the course of the story.

I always thought gender change was when it happens in the story and gender bender is when they're different from cannon

I want to give clarity to this because these extra tags for Gender Bend are just muddying the waters and the definitions are all wrong. As I have said on the Gender Bender suggestion From a tropes website: Description: A character that has undergone a complete physical sex change, usually through magic or Applied Phlebotinum. Depending on the storyline, this may be a one-time temporary change, a recurring change (causing the character to jump the gender line often), or even permanent. Bodyswap is Bodyswap, Possession is Possession, Skinsuit is Skinsuit. These are again. muddying the pure definition of Biological Female/Male changing to the other Gender. Anything else is a different variation and should be separated. Again from the site: Note that the definition of "gender" being used here (and in most trope names) refers to a character's physical sex, not gender identity, which is a noticeably looser concept that doesn't necessarily involve a physical sex change.

I think gender bender can refer to mundane changes in appearence, but the whole thing *Should* be better defined someday

@ranchdong Just reject this proposal please, the discussion is going nowhere - it's like WNBA debating on the definition of what a woman is.

pretty sure gender bender is the finished version of gender change??

yeah, I always knew it as Gender bender

I think so but gender swap means 2 people of different genders swap bodies. I.e soul swap, personality swap etc. the difference between gender change and gender swap is so high. Gender change is wider term for all body sex changes.

ga sekalian gender swap?

I search this tag using only "gender" since there were many works who only have gender bender or change or morph tag 😅. Btw if anyone finds story where character is holding creampie intresting and want to read some more do check out holding cum tag and upvote it.

Looks like this is turning into a two-camp definition debate: the old-school purists vs the evolved new generation. I'm for the old-school camp definition btw.

That's why I suggest we should take gender change and stop using gender bender. The major porn site such as pornhub uses gender bender for gender change sex but based on Google and gemini/gpt in real life the act of cross-dressing and different behaviour/preference then there gender is G.B I.e a guy who act, prefer, wear and live as female is gender bender. But for hentai/anime website gender bender means change in gender

A sudden discomfort and surprised factor due gender change is always tagged as gender bender. The character who voluntary changes there gender was never considered as gender bender it was always know as gender change. Other than that gender bender and gender change is same. The shocking factor like (omg/oh my gender changed) is gender bender and the gender change is wider term that includes all possible settings where person gender change.

For imaginary work like manga anime hentai doujinshi is/are gender bender=gender change. The more appropriate explanation is given based on real life

Gender bender is only applicable for real life content not imaginary work" That's incorrect. Well I'm sorry the contents i mostly read are also gender bender, gender change, possession, gender swap and based on my 200+ doujinshis I have read on nhentai with these are showing changes in there gender And that's why I have given all of this explanation.

@aelter I did ask the gemini to differentiate it and that's what I got

Perhaps you had to be around for a while to know but, @Aelter is otherwise correct in all definitions @hentau15 seems to be approaching understanding of what gender-bender is/was but is confused by more recent adoptions of definitions by people unrelated to hentai/art (lgbt,etc) @Osamu09 just seems to be wasting everyone's time and their gpt 'conclusions' should be ignored Gender-bender as a category has been in use before the inception of this website (>12 years) whereas gender change and morph came into usage ~4 years ago. if you don't know the difference between them that's on you, git gud. i invite and recommend you to look at earlier works with these tags to perhaps enlighten yourself on what the tags represent (and why they are different)

@Hentau: "In real life gender bender is a specific content for borderline transgender people who don't like there gender by birth and wants to indentify themselves as something else [but] haven't changed there gender sexually like through surgery or medicine. Because that's gender change." Confidently incorrect. Look up the term on online dictionaries. "bender means mental sexual discomfort (not feeling good with the new gender)" Are you really just laying out your head-canon as fact? Or do you make up this as you go? Trolling? "a girl in basketball team mistaken as a boy is tomboy. A guy who wear drag sometime not is cross-dressing. Futanari is just futanari or dickgirl. Hetrosexual couple swap body that's body swap with gender change if there is any sexual changes" Yes, and 'gender bender' would be the umbrella term. It's not a either/or-issue. I'm done

@Osamu: I get what you mean. But in that case... if people want to look for 'gender change' it would be better to merge 'gender bender' into 'gender change', no? @Hentau: "Gender bender is only applicable for real life content not imaginary work" That's incorrect. See following links: https://www.japanesewithanime.com/2018/02/gender-bender-terms.html https://myanimelist.net/featured/1216/15_Best_Gender-Bender_Anime__Whats_a_Hideyoshi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_bender#In_visual_arts_media https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1678453 I almost agree with you about maybe 'gender bender' should be removed from nHentai. But that has more to do the term being so old school that users don't know what it means.

Gender change includes changing there gender into male, female, futanari, dickgirl, shemale, cuntboy.

In real life gender bender is a specific content for borderline transgender people who don't like there gender by birth and wants to indentify themselves as something else. Like male to female or female to male. But haven't changed there gender sexually like through surgery or medicine. Because that's gender change.

Here is my thoughts instead of merging gender change into gender bender do transfer gender bender to gender change since it's easy to understand. Gender bender shouldn't exist on hentai websites since all they show is gender change. Gender bender is only applicable for real life content not imaginary work atleast on nhentai and similar content. @Aelter a girl in basketball team mistaken as a boy is tomboy. A guy who wear drag sometime not is cross-dressing Futanari is just futanari or dickgirl Hetrosexual couple swap body that's body swap with gender change if there is any sexual changes btw share this souce i wanna fap. A love story where romantic intrest is an enby that's simple pure love or romance there is no specific tag for it. There is no difference in gender bender and gender change atleast for hentai website other than bender means mental sexual discomfort (not feeling good with the new gender)

yeah, see what I meant. 2 people, @Aelter and @hentau15 agreeing that "gender change" is different from "gender bender" but not agreeing on why they're different my point is that if someone is looking for "gender bender" they're 99% of the time looking for "gender change". If you're looking for any scenario that @Aelter just mentioned there are other tags. If you want to make any other distinction like @hentau15 said, then I think it's better to create a new tag because neither "gender bender" nor "gender change" imply anything like that

It’s just that, despite people personally feeling what they think ’gender bender’ means, the theme has been defined since long ago. It does not have to be a gender change at all. A girl in the basketball team getting mistaken for being a boy, despite not crossdressing? Gender bender. A guy who sometimes wear drag, sometimes not? Gender bender. A futanari goes to a school, with no sexual content in the story? Gender bender. A heterosexual couple swap bodies due to bumping into eachother? Gender bender. A love story where the romantic interest is an enby? Gender bender. ’Gender bender’ simply signifies that the work is BENDING the GENDER conventions. Phrased differently, it means that an unexpected gender expression is adressed in the work. To narrow it down to ONLY someone have their sex changed is ludicrous.

Just think of a character who changed there gender and are in there rebellious phase are called gender bender.

Like a character who don't like having sex with guys suddenly intrested in guys after sexual changes called gender change. They start wanted to look cute and beautiful instead of being masculine, they start acting like feminine or vise versa for female to male. A character who changed there gender into female but doesn't changed there preference, behaviour, and sexual preference. Like he doesn't like been called cute after changes into female etc.

If u look at animes there is only gender bender tag it includes ranma 1/2, onimai, ayakashi triangle etc. There is no behaviour changes, the feeling of uneasiness when they change gender. In gender change the behaviour, personality, sexual preference changes when they physically change.

In simpler terms the gender change tag uses when the character changes there gender and they physically and mentally accept there new life. Meanwhile gender bender means change in physical appearance but act like or think like previous life/personality.

Gender change it means the character physicaly changed there gender. Means while gender bender means the character who changed there gender wants to or act like they want to turn back to there previous gender again. Gender bender means physically uncomfortable with different body organs.

3/3 In general "gender bender" is indeed supposed to mean that it's more than "gender change". The issue that I find most trouble with is that if it's not "gender change", it's pretty much gonna be either crossdressing/tomboy/otokonoko, etc. The only use case I can see it's for scenarios where the character is confused with a different gender, but at that point we could just make a tag like create tag mistaken gender +9 Point is that while "gender bender" is supposed to be a lot more, for the purposes of a hentai site it's really not. It makes a lot more sense to use it as just "gender change". It would still be an umbrella term in the sense that you can change your gender in many different ways, but not so broad that it includes things like crossdressing

2/X Some disagreements are actually not even about the merge itself, but rather that the gender bender tag isn't enough by itself, but they're not really arguing to keep "gender change" as it is. For the ones that are arguing that, there are 2 main idelogies. One, the character swaps gender in the middle of the story rather than at the start or even before it begins. Two, gender bender includes scenarios where the character doesn't actually swap gender. Those idelogies are pretty different. The first one doesn't hold a lot of water if that's all the difference. Personally I would buy much more into number two. Let's go a bit more in detail on that one

1/X READ THIS COMMENT, it contains the summary of all other comments I've actually gone once again through all the comments, and it's not easy because there's so many different things that people are debating on. But by grouping opinions, and cutting the noise, things became much simpler. I even pasted all comments to chatgpt to get a second point of view Looking at what I gathered there's a very clear outcome. First of all, more commenters agree they should be merged, which checks with the score so far. Disagreers are not few, but there's a huge issue. They don't seem to agree between themselves either

Gender change is where the character's gender literally changes within the doujin Gender bender is a category for (pre-existing ip) characters who are gender swapped for the doujin unsurprising they get confused, the former is used more broadly and loosely than the latter

I think there's a difference on this one. So the tag should be kept since changing gender on command, forced to change gender and changing it on your own naturally are really different. Then the middle ground being crossdressing which are neither. Although that's just me, since it's still good to have specific tags like this one especially for people trying to find what's close without being well... one from the above mentioned.

i always thought of gender bender = tsf and gender change = ts, which are used for different situations in jp spaces like pixiv. something like #452139 | Futanari Chinpo Yakuza to Kashita Ookan… | 3,278 or #457229 | TS Loli Oji-san no Bouken Onanie Hen |… | 12,424 would be gender bender because they change suddenly, the older sibling in #508525 | Josou Danshi no Otouto | The Transvesti… | 4,765 would be gender change because they take meds, and stuff like #625731 | Hikikomori na Otokonoko | 10,248 is just a clothing thing so it's neither of these

First of all, I want to apologize to Petertje. In light of comments made by staff the last weeks my comments seem overly confident. I was probably wrong about how they handle merges. I hope for good changes ahead. @Petertje, I am honestly sorry. Please forgive me Secondly, I have downvoted this because to me they are not the same. Genderbender is so much more than gender change. That's all.

@AHentaiPerson2 "if you are talking about not putting gender bender tag on those alternate version" yes, this one. Like I said, "and keeping them separate". As for the gender bender merging suggestion itself, it got so messy because the genre itself evolved over time, really. @Aelter and @petertje already explained some. So unless someone can post a convincing essay on the differences between gender bender/change/morph/swap with example codes (@petertje's brief description from exhentai is not enough sadly) then I'd personally go for merging while keeping the 'gender bender' name for its historical usage. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_bender P.S. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gender_of_Mona_Lisa the anime version was broadcast just recently. It would be fun to see how the Japanese doujin artists will interpret the series in their works, and how those doujinshi will hold in this discussion lol.

@40-sai archwizard Yeah but it depends on what you are trying to separate here. If you are talking about 'rule-63' d alternative versions/universe then there's my suggestion of create tag reversed genders +13 But if you are talking about individual changes for only SOME characters inside the story that are alternative versions, then I do believe it is better to not act on that. Like maybe for the characters with ambigious genders getting assigned a sex could get something like "Interpreted sex", but I don't see a need to categorize the other cases. Oh but if you are talking about not putting gender bender tag on those alternate version, then yea, I am on board with that. If it is anything else you meant then feel free to explain what you mean in detail.

@vagooo I did rant, but it's good to know that you didn't read anything I wrote. That aside if you have nothing to say or to push back my claims please do keep comments clean so people that are actually interested on the Taxonomy of things could read and get to their own conclusion on the topic. This is not a "I think" situation, we are trying to properly categorize the tags on this site. And for your information, since you are only able to read snippets: This tag IS about the result, not action.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenderBender Here 'gender change' was mentioned five times and all of them are synonymous with gender bender if you swap the words. So basically the same. If I were to use other words like 'gender swap' and 'gender morph' I'll also get the same meaning. @RikyBiky meanwhile is right about mentioning "characters with non-canon genders or alternative versions with a different gender" and keeping them separate. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenderFlip https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Rule63

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