Merge: gender change → gender bender » nhentai

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merge held 162d ago

tag gender change 1.1k tag gender bender 16.9k

note Theres no difference, is there? Redundant tag.

reviewHeld for an admin

ranchdong I've thought about this for a bit and my major concern is merges are destructive and lossy. Meaning if there is value in keeping them separate then we should. If there is legit no value and just a mistake of the past then merge is fine here

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74 Comments

OH no no no- @vagooo YOU are the one who is mistaken. Gender bender is, and always has been, about physically changing one's body to the opposite gender THAT IS FULLY FUNCTIONAL, period. This, by the nature of its own description and unfortunately for you, does not include cases when characters cross-dress, act, or mutilate their own bodies to try and look like the opposite gender, it is just objectively wrong to categorize these things as the same. If you are interested in such things I advise you to use the appropriate tags or open them yourself. And, I know you can't make the distinction but I'll educate you, if you wanted to see characters who REJECT their gender, yes reject because you should not and CAN-NOT affirm something you never were or will be, just open a tag for works that contain characters like that. In this way you can have them participate in gender bender OR cross-dress/mutilation tagged works while I can blacklist it from my sight, win-win.

-2- However, if you STILL insist on the belief that there should be an umbrella tag which contains all tags that has been mentioned before WHILE using the naming scheme of ONLY ONE OF THEM, that being gender bender/swap/change(etc.), which is BY MOST PEOPLE defined AND used in the way I described before, I can't infer anything but you acting in bad faith via using these community suggestions as means to push your preferred interpretations onto everyone else. What you are trying to do is akin to a man categorizing frogs and catterpillars under the umbrella that they are both green. The shared characteristic exists, but it is not the defining characteristic of EITHER category, making the classification COMPLETELY meaningless. IN OTHER WORDS, so you get it through your skull, just because both tags are about gender related topics gives you no grounds to categorize them as the same fucking thing.

-3- I do not loathe the existence of trans characters being inside gender bender works, in the first place I NEVER denied their existence. What I LOATHE is people like you who are sullying and muddying the public definitions to get people to accept everyone and everything which they deem fit. Just like how you EXACTLY know— because of the example you gave, that someone being trans is a different thing from the gender bender concept, yet you STILL push the idea of them being the same thing becuase they took place in the same work together. THAT IS what I loathe. And people like you don't necessarily need to be trans, nor all trans people need to be like you, thus why I said "woke bs". The only thing I said about trans people on my previous comment was that they could open a tag for their own, under the assumption that mostly they would be the ones to enjoy works like that.

tbh, this is a problematic category isn't it? I think genderswap as @Aelter suggests best fits what's going on over other suggestions. I think what this means for me is to downvote OP's merge because I think the 'gender bender' term should go, not 'change'. @HentaiPerson2: I sort of take umbrage that trans people using gender bender tag undermining some original tag intention is 'woke bs'— that's mistaken. Trans is affirming a gender identity that you didn't have at birth— and keeping in mind, there are *many* ways to be trans & that probably *wouldn't* be able to exclude a non-consensual magical transformation in hentai. Therefore being trans does apply to 'gender bender' as well, much as you may be loathe to admit it. Buuut, I do think it's also true that 'gender bender' is probably not going to be used by LGBTIQ+ seeking people and may be deemed problematic by some (e.g. 'bending' inflecting a change as unnatural). So I do probably follow you that better tags can distinguish that

@Osamu09 just suggest to remove gender bender from those alike, it is not suppose to be a transition thing, trans people can open a tag for their own if they want to, gender bender/swap was supposed to be just characters changing to opposite sex, then woke bs people mixed up their own fantasies with an already established one, basically "merging" before that came to be, because they did not have their own tags. They should also name it something clearly different so people do not assume it is gender bender/swap/change/morph, all of these should be the exact same thing.

welcome to the top 10, I guess. I've caught up with the discussion I've just searched both "gender change" and "gender bender", I checked a bunch of stuff and I'm just very confused. Extremely confused actually. I can't make heads or tails of it. Overall I think they're supposed to be the same. The only issue is what @Aelter mentioned that "gender bender" used to include all kind of stuff. I was able to find this work #32537 | Daiwari to josou to assistant | 1,171 (pay attention to the 1st page explanation). The character doesn't change gender, it only looks like he changed point is, that's still pretty rare even in old gender bender hentai. So it wouldn't be that hard to just remove the tag from those works. So in the end a merging is the right way to go. It's just about which name we want to use for it. I would personally just keep it as "gender bender", just because it has been used for longer

Gender morph is different from gender change.

And gender morph too

@bob ert it's not though, there's an objective history behind these tags because every tag prior to the taxonomy introduction has been scraped from exhentai where every tag has elaborate definitions.

@hollowilds might have some truth

I mean the whole worry I have is centered around how the merge function is implemented, which we cannot see. If it's a proper alias then there's no problem. If it isn't then I foresee problems in the future, but ideally the devs would just create an alias function because that's really what would be the most effective solution here considering the source from where nhentai gets its doujiins and tags from.

PS. (I’ll also add that I like this discussion and do not mean to come off as hostile or offstandish. Reading back I see I could’ve just answered ”Yes” to the question in your first comment. If you prefer we can keep it at that, my fellow)

Aliasing also implies that you keep both tags but let’s one of them change automatically when you try to use it (like on Danbooru), whereas here we won’t see the old tags as they are transformed BTS.. I think ”merging” works fine, most people understand the word. There’s nothing in the guidelines we have to worry about.

An alias would imply that everything that gets uploaded in the future with an aliased tag, would have that aliased tag automatically replaced. I don't know if that has indeed been implemented in an automatic way, but ideally it should. Considering what the guidelines say, I suspect a merge is more of a one-time renaming for all galleries with the gender change tag to gender bender. Then after that we'll get new doujins form exhentai that still use the gender change tag and they won't be automatically renamed to gender bender. That's the problem that I see happening if merging isn't a proper alias function.

I agree with everything you just said except the last sentence. The merging is the alias function you're thinking of.

The tags come from there too and that will still remain the case. You will always have to take into account what exhentai does and how it impacts the content on this site. Unless the devs of this site develop an alias function I don't see this merge working out well.

This is nHentai though, not exHentai. Even if the manga comes from there, we can still do with the tags as we fit. Especially from now on, now when we have the power to alter tagging in different ways. We don't have to follow the tagging system of exHentai blindly. And for what I think, Thank god for that! It has a long, long way to go.

This is a relic from old exhentai tags. "Gender bender" was changed to "gender change". Here's the exhentai definitions: Gender change: A character changes gender from their usual one through any means (e.g. gender morph, possession, and body swap). Gender morph: A character's body changes gender from their original one through body transformation. May invoke transformation if it is shown as a sequence and not a sudden change. This merge makes sense since they're literally intended to be the same tag, but I do wonder about the effect of merging a tag name that currently still exists on exhentai. If this gets merged nhentai scrapes a doujin that has the "gender change" tag, would it automatically became "gender bender"?

Honestly i feel same with gender morph.

Gender-bender is an old animanga tag for works that play with gender. It's a hypernym of gender change, and also what Hollowilds desbrices (known as "genderswap" to me). Really, it's an umbrella term even for crossdressing and genderqueer as well. Manga and anime have played with gender for most of it's history, with works like Ribbon no Kishi, Rose of Versailles, Ranma ½, Ouran Koukou Host Club, Kämpfer, Princess Jellyfish, and tropes like futas, traps, newhalfs and so on. Sometimes it's temporary, sometimes permanent. Sometimes it's magical, sometimes it's natural. Sometimes it's by choice, sometimes it's just others who gets things the wrong way. Fans needed a word to describe a work that played with gender, as it happens a lot, for example in yuri. Hence "gender-bender". If one would want a term that narrows in on the meaning "a character drawn in the opposite sex" as that the work treats the new gender as the true norm, "genderswapped" would suffice.

Gender change means the change happens during the comic. Gender bender means that it's a character that's been interpreted as the opposite gender.

Maybe could be worth keeping to differentiate between gender change in the comic, and comics with characters with non-canon genders or alternative versions with a different gender.

@_Akumu_ Not quite true #529929 | Arknights W | 1,659 #649447 | Shinjinsei ~Akogare no Classmate Hen~ |… | 5,729

I think the difference between these 2 is in one the character starts the story as the opposite sex and the other changes mid way through

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