Describe: tomgirl » nhentai

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describe 124d ago

tag tomgirl 22.0k

Tag description

Proposed

men who act and look feminine

Applied

A boy or a man who behaves in a stereo-typically feminine manner, enjoys feminine activities, or prefers feminine clothing.

staff Just going to go with this for now

ranchdong

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43 Comments

Holy we got socrates, aristotle and platos level thinking in this comment section, combined iq greater than then speed of light

^^ honestly agree with the post below been thinking that for a while

I don't really like "tomgirl". It's unintuitive, every time I see this tag I feel like the equations lady meme - gotta relate it to tomboy then flip it, and then wonder if I got it right. The priority of a tag should be clarity first over semantic correctness. If I have to pause for a moment and parse what a tag means, it's poorly named. Something like "femboy", with a separate "trans F" tag makes the most sense to me, but I understand the line between "cross dressing cis male" and "trans female" is super blurry, especially in the h-doujin context. All I know is "tomgirl" is a bad name for the tag.

lastly I've seen some comparison between the "tomboy" and "tomgirl" tags. This might just be my biased opinion, but I feel that "tomboy" can be used for just the character's personality (think of tomboys with big breasts), while "tomgirl" focuses mostly on their appearance (like they can be rude and act like, for lack of a better word, a tomboy)

@Ash5O5 you must've typed that very quickly to not only realize it's a different word from "tomboy", but also missing all the discussion there has been so far. Searching for "tomgirl" gives very obvious results Anyway I've tried to catch up with all the discussion. I see that a lot of people would prefer femboy. Honestly I prefer tomgirl just because it rhymes with "girl". Either way it most likely won't be changed, but I would be totally in favor of changing it to "otokonoko". It just feels like anyone who's into them would already be somewhat familiar with the word as it appears in many works, including visual novels as for the description whatever is fine, but if you want to specify I feel like we need some examples since everyone may have a different idea of what a femboy is

@Ash5O5 Nope, you’re the one who’s wrong. What you’re thinking of is “tomboy”.

Lol that's wrong Tomgirl means woman who act or dress like man not men who did that, that's femboy

@Tobon I feel like the way I proposed it already includes the fact that clothing and attitude are both part of it and that the definition is not limited in either but rather a combination in different proportion of those 3. If the description were "men who wear feminine clothing" then you would be in the right; however feminine activities and feminine manner are relevant enough to consider here which isn't the case for cross-dressing. I agree they should be separated tags, of course. However many such cases exists where the tomgirl dresses "femenine" or "androginous enough" while it's not technically cross-dressing, just the gist of it. I disagree that "boy" fits the description better, there are doujins of "men" and even if it's the 90% as you said I don't think keeping the "A boy or a man..." portion of the description is hurtful for the tag or mischievous to the user.

Lastly, "boy" probably fits the description much better than "men", as 90% of the time this tag is used it's with either shotas or youthful men/teens. Male femininity is often associated with youthfulness, hence why one famous term is "femboy" and not "femmen", even when referring to adults. My personal suggestion for the description: "A boy or young biological male who looks or acts in a distinctively feminine, delicate or submissive manner, or comes to act in such a way over the course of the work (i.e. a femboy, sissy, etc). May or may not involve cross-dressing."

And for the ones saying "femboy" is a better tag, keep in mind the extreme popularity of that term has what... some ≈5 years? I basically don't remember hearing about it before the pandemic, "twink" was probably the more general default. And this site has been popular for much longer than that. While it would probably be a better term TODAY, I don't think it's worth the change given since it's not that hard to find out, specially with proper tag descriptions. Ideally we'd have an aliasing system where it automatically merges equivalent tags like you have on some good boorus, but Alas. The "boy" part there might also make some pretentious ideologues such as @passiveminus try to separate it from actual traps, even though nobody searching for it gives an actual F, and that oftentimes it'd impossible to determine.

@Metrascope "prefers feminine clothing" would kind incentivise the mistake that people already make, which is conflating this tag with cross-dressing. Though they're often paired, they're not the same thing and should stay separate.

I feel like the description could be more accurate. Men who act and look feminine doesn't entirely wrap what a tomgirl is. "A boy or a man who behaves in a stereotypically feminine manner, enjoys feminine activities, or prefers feminine clothing" would be more accurate. Difference being in the "stereotypically" wording and describing attitudes and activities rather than "looks" or "acts"

From Etymonline.com: tomboy (n.) 1550s, "rude, boisterous boy" (a sense now obsolete), from Tom + boy; the meaning "wild, romping girl, girl who acts like a spirited boy" is attested from 1590s. It formerly also could mean "strumpet, bold or immodest woman" (1570s). Compare tomrig "rude, wild girl." Related: Tomboyish. So, “tomboy” started out referring to particularly boyish boys, and later flipped to referring to boyish girls. I’d be willing to bet that initially girls who acted like boys were mocked with “those girls are acting like tomboys”, and eventually the “acting like” part got dropped, and it became “those girls are tomboys”, shifting the definition. I’d also be willing to bet that “tomgirl” and “janegirl”, which have both been used to refer to boys acting like girls, were derived from people intentionally inverting the word “tomboy” after it started being used to refer to girls acting like boys. In any case, the “tom” in “tomboy” and “tomcat” are both from the name “Tom”.

What does the 'tom' in tomboy mean anyway? https://grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/05/who-is-the-tom-in-tomboy.html Link indicates it signifies maleness, same reason we sometimes call a male cat a tomcat, and googling for other sources of opinion confirms it. So for that context 'tomgirl' is a weird word to describe effeminate males. The 'feminine boy' shortened to femboy makes more sense. But since the tag already exists a word change would be much more preferred as pointed out by the majority of commenters so far. The tag description meanwhile needs a bit of polish : "Men or boys who look and act feminine."

Yeah I don't see the point of "tomgirl" when "femboy" is the word most people use.

Perhaps we can use both tags, make it "Femboy | Tomgirl". I'm not really sure how well that idea might work, but maybe combine the two so that the tag somewhat conveys the idea for "effeminate" male characters.

To help the tag from getting diluted I think the definition should explicitly mention examples of what content shouldn't be tagged (i.e.dickgirls). If "men" was intentionally chosen wording to exclude shota then that should also be made clear, otherwise it should be "a male".

Men who look and act feminine. Aka femboys, feminine men, "traps", male crossdressers. Men can be feminine without being shota, even if the two tags often overlap

@passiveminus TY for explaining that weirdness with the tagging. If that's the case, and most content on here is and will be from Japan, I'm not sure if the intention will always translate 1:1 to western gender concepts? Would need to also use tags like otokonoko, onabe, bishonen etc

Girls that are not girls aka faggots

Nah just call them femboys, also that shit will ruin searches

I guess maybe I'd better offer a better description than what we've got going on. *Ahem* Men who act, appear, and attire themselves in a feminine manner for personal gratification, often to deceive other men. Typically engaged in yaoi encounters, but not always!

Edit: Forgot, but tomgirl also doesn't make sense since it's playing off of tomboy, which is a type of personality (typically a boisterous one and not inherently masculine, although it often is) and not a playstyle (despite the fact it's usually associated with a specific look in ero manga). Technically tombirl just means sissy, which you can get with shota and other timid male characters. But I digress, no one actually cares about being accurate with the English language here anyway.

I don't know when or why it was ever changed, but the most apt term here is trap, or otokonoko. Plots typically follow in a format where the protagonist is initially confused as to the true nature of the feminine lead, before being revealed. The reader also shares in the protagonist's confusion since tags don't actually exist in the real world, and it's still often presented as a surprise to the reader from the protagonist's perspective even when advertised. Even when the true nature of the feminine lead is immediately obvious to the protagonist and reader, trap still applies since it's not advertised to the surrounding setting and exceptions are rare enough to not count. Overall, it does a better job implying the nature of the story, but that's just my opinion as a former trap myself, especially as it's a more active implication than whatever laziness is going on with femboy. Transsexuals should, obviously, be excluded with a newhalf or just transgender tag.

I appreciate the people locking in, and giving thought prevoking comments on the tags. @Xji21, @passiveminus, @yyyk

@Deinovaki "Tomgirl better separates women with dicks from just feminine men." > "women with dicks", "futanari"?

Imo femboy is a better descriptor, but there are a buttload of extreme feminization works that would completely escape the femboy category. There's a huge difference between having a cute guy in a dress, and then giving a guy hormones until he grows tits. Tag name should probably stay as is, but idk what would be an appropriate description for what this tag means currently in the site...

This tag should be renamed or aliased to femboy because tomgirl is not widely used and confusing.

This tag is weird and bad. It is used extensively for both feminine men and for trans women. Half the characters have female haircuts, boobs, short and generally sexualized in a feminine way. The other half are indeed femboys, unmistakably male. The ideal solution would be to split and recategorize in two distinct categories. That seems unlikely and impossible. The root of the issue is at its source, as trans discourse in Japan is stifled and infantile. It is expected for trans characters to behave and act like their gender, yet still refer to themselves as their birth gender. As such, I don't expect it to be resolved any time in our lifetimes. Therefore I'm against renaming the tag, and keeping it as is is the best solution possible. The proposed description is inaccurate, as I said tag includes trans women. If I were to read tag description without prior knowledge, I'd conclude it doesn't cover them whatsoever.

Def prefer tomgirl over femboy as way too many people on the internet conflate femboy with tgirls or futa. Tomgirl better separates women with dicks from just feminine men.

Well I do realize it makes the discussion more complex than it needs to be, so I kept searching and on rename nakadashi creampie rejected moderator responded as to what to do in these cases. I had forgotten to check rejected tags, but basically we should keep these tags as they are already named and wait for an ailias system.

Hey just wondering why are some ppl use big words like "consensus" like dawg this isnt an english essay, moreover ts a goon site?

I think femboy is the preferable term and Id say change the tomgirl tag to femboy

3/3 Then again, renaming this tag would also be an issue as “tomgirl” is and has been for a long time the term used to describe this type of characters, even though “femboy” is a trending synonymous term. So finally I wonder, what would be the consensus for synonymous tags? I don’t believe that ignoring the issue by simply sticking with the originally used term is a solution, so then for cases like this of widely known synonyms, should we add common synonyms to the tag’s description?, but then the search engine wouldn’t yield results when searching for the synonym, therefore a change in the tag’s naming (for example including both terms in the naming) would be required, however this would be against tidy tags. Finally, an expansion on the site’s search system could resolve this by properly managing and saving synonymous terms for a tag, but those are big asks so, until then, how should these issues be solved?

2/3 I find this tag naming and description to fit within these discussions although I believe it’s a more divisive case as both synonyms are fairly reasonable to be used interchangeably and for someone not to be aware of the term “tomgirl” meanwhile easily recognizing “femboy”, especially in this case as femboy is a term widely used nowadays and mainly outside of hentai, reason for which I’d say is reasonable for someone to be unaware of the term tomgirl. However the creation of a new tag would be pointless as synonymous tag definitions should be merged into a single tag for tidier tags, but this creates the current issue where if someone doesn't know the term “tomgirl” and simply searches for a “femboy” tag the search engine won’t yield the “tomgirl” tag as a result.

1/3 I’ve been looking around for similar issues as of this tag’s naming, as I as well ended up here after searching for “femboy” tag suggestions and found create tag femboy +41, where there also is a comment arguing that the tag “tomgirl” already existed for describing this type of characters, and truthfully so I’d say both tags fit the same description even though I initially forgot of this tag and defaulted to “femboy”. Then, as I initially opened with, I’ve noticed similar naming discussions for synonyms brought up with describe nakadashi accepted and “creampie” asswell as create tag childhood friend accepted and create tag osananajimi +277.

I thought that "Tomgirl" and "Femboy" are only needed tags. Thoughts, anyone?

Tomgirl and Femboy are the same???? Is that why the site doesn't have a Femboy tag?? 🥀I just used crossdressing tag😭

I agree with @Harikita that femboy is a better term for the description

I dunno. I like tomgirl more, mainly to synergize with tomboy. Plus tomgirl don't get used much so, having its place here is neat

Femboy is a more appropriate term in my opinion.

could be way, way more refined

Could be more refined.