Describe: tomgirl » nhentai

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describe edited 68d ago

tag tomgirl 22.0k

Tag description a boy or man who looks conventionally feminine; and may cross-dress in girl's clothes and behave in stereotypical feminine manner

note I am proposing this change because the current description; "A boy or a man who behaves in a stereo-typically feminine manner, enjoys feminine activities, or prefers feminine clothing"; completely misses the mark. This trope is primarily defined by the apprence of the character, and not by behavior as the current description implies. This is similar to how "loli" character are definied by apprence and not by her age or behavior. Further notes in bottom comment.

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lord411 25d ago

Note
-I am proposing this change because the current description; "A boy or a man who behaves in a stereo-typically feminine manner, enjoys feminine activities, or prefers feminine clothing"; completely misses the mark. This trope is primarily defined by the apprence of the character, and not by behavior as the current description implies. This is similar to how "loli" character are definied by apprence and not by her age or behavior.

+I am proposing this change because the current description; "A boy or a man who behaves in a stereo-typically feminine manner, enjoys feminine activities, or prefers feminine clothing"; completely misses the mark. This trope is primarily defined by the apprence of the character, and not by behavior as the current description implies. This is similar to how "loli" character are definied by apprence and not by her age or behavior. Further notes in bottom comment.
lord411 68d ago

Description
-a boy or man who looks conventionally feminine; and may cross-dress in girl's clothes and behaves in stereotypical feminine manner

+a boy or man who looks conventionally feminine; and may cross-dress in girl's clothes and behave in stereotypical feminine manner

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22 Comments

I am not making random comments, I am discussing your proposal and am disagreeing with it. The translation of 日本 is Japan. I understand that the individual kanji have different meanings on their own and most kanji have several meanings, depending on context and which other kanji they are paired with. 男の娘 can absolutely be translated, the translation is femboy, which is what you have described in your description. Tomgirl is a different word, with a different meaning.

@Axyer Don't make random comments when you don't know the language. "male daughter" is just literal transcription of the kanji in 男の娘. If you are going literally translate the kanji in japan's name 日本, it will be "sun book" or "day book" and not the name of the country. 男の娘 is impossible to literally translate which is why translators use substitute terms like "trap" and "tomgirl"

「男の娘」 is slang and a play on the word 「男の子」. Both words are pronounced the same way, otokonoko. 男の子 simply means "boy", specifically "male child". 男の娘 means "male daughter" and refers to young males with a feminine expression. Femboy is the closest English equivalent to 「男の娘」. You are correct that tomgirl is not a real word, yet it is still the logical counterpart to tomboy. It is a word-in-the-making, it makes sense and has a meaning, unlike something like Snoop Dogg's "shizzle" and "nizzle", which has no meaning and only serves to rhyme and to sound funny. And please don't talk down to people for having English as their second language. The semicolon in your description is redundant and there is no hyphen in the word "crossdress". Sources: https://jisho.org/word/男の子 https://jisho.org/word/男の娘 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/tomboy?q=tomboy

for those whose first language isn't english, "tomgirl" was not a real english word. there has been no common antonym to "tomboy" with the closest word being "sissy" or similar insults

@fuckriri1234 Is english your first language?

ideky this is a discussion when a 5 second search shows that behavior is a defining trait of tomgirl/tomboy https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tomgirl A boy who behaves in a typically girlish manner. Antonym of tomboy (“girl who behaves in a typically boyish manner”). https://www.yourdictionary.com/tomgirl A boy who behaves in a typically girlish manner. Tomboy: a girl who behaves in a typically boyish manner. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tomboy A girl who behaves in a manner usually considered boyish https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tomboy an energetic, sometimes boisterous girl whose behavior and pursuits, especially in games and sports, are considered more typical of boys than of girls https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/tomboy A girl who dresses or acts in a stereotypically boyish way is often called a tomboy https://provlib.org/programs-exhibitions/tomboy/ a "wild, romping girl, who acts like a spirited boy"; or "strumpet, bold and immodest woman"

@fuckriri1234 Why have you linked a dictionary entry for "tomboy"?

@lord411 bro what? "tomgirl" is a spin-off of "tomboy" with western roots whether the tag has been used by the western understanding (axyer's definition) or the japanese understanding (your definition), couldn't say but saying "tomgirl" is a direct translation of a japanese word is silly https://www.etymonline.com/word/tomboy

@axyer "Tomgirl" is a direct translation of 男の娘 which primarily means "a cute boy who looks like a girl". Please read bottom comment for extended explanation.

You are describing femboy, not tomgirl. A tomgirl is a boy that has girlish mannerisms and interests, like playing with dolls, baking cookies and writing love letters. A tomgirl does not necessarily look like a girl, nor is he necessarily a homosexual. It is the male counterpart to tomboy and is entirely behavioural. Crossdressing is a separate term, that there already is a tag for. It is redundant in this description.

@hencho i proposed this change because that's completely wrong. read the first comment for full notes

Feel bad pointing it out, but it should be "behave in a stereotypically feminine manner"

@fuckriri1234 I don't want to get into irl examples because that's beyond the scope here, but in anime and manga and especially hentai there is a overlap between androgynous males and 男の娘. The best example would be Link, an androgynous male character who is depicted as a tomgirl in many doujins. Another common example would be Kazuma from Summer Wars.

@lord411 the point i was making was assuming that clothes are a large part of a character's appearance; that [feminine clothing] fits your description of "conventionally feminine," and them being worn by a neckbeard doesn't change that fact. It was a fallacious conclusion to point out my issue with the proposal, not my actual beliefs That's where my head was at, but I can scrap this argument altogether since you don't seem to include clothes when defining a "character's appearance". Even granting that, I still don't think it's a complete definition. Androgynous men have conventionally feminine traits, but they aren't tomgirls (which is why i brought up tim henson). there is more to tomgirl than simply "conventional femininity" or appearance

@fuckriri1234 I already stated crossdressing is optional, it's defined by the appearance of character, the boy himself looks like a girl. You say "conventionally feminine" is too vague and the same time go on to list clothing that's "conventionally feminine". And to repeat myself again, this isn't about clothing, it's defined by the appearance of the character himself. A neckbeard in skirt is never going to look feminine.

meant to say [conventionally feminine]* in the last sentence, dk how i missed that

@lord411 age was one of the three criteria i mentioned, but lolis are irrelevant here, so who really cares i said this in some other proposal (i dont rmbr which), but "conventionally x" is far too vague imho. dresses, blouses, hotpants (short shorts), etc. are all "conventionally feminine" yet, your most recent comment portrays that "burly men in [conventionally feminine clothing] is NOT conventionally feminine." that just makes no sense perhaps i am misunderstanding what it means. so if you could elaborate "conventionally attractive" to me, then you might as well include it in your definition is all i'm saying

@fuckriri1234 Do burly men in skirts look "conventionally feminine" to you? Do you even understand what "conventionally feminine" means? And if you are trying to define loli by age then you are completely wrong there as well

@lord411 funnily enough i actually already wrote abt lolis with appearance, age, and behavior as the three main criteria for them create tag shortstack accepted if tomgirl is primarily appearance-defined, then the burly men cross dressing as women would be a tomgirl in your opinion?

@fuckriri1234 Like I already stated this trope is primarily defined by appearance, like for loli characters her age or behavior doesn't matter. And idk about irl people, but you are wrong to say feminine appearance isn't the defining factor here. 男の娘/trap/tomgirl is all about anime male characters who look like girls. Ofcourse there's more to it like the cuteness and slim body type, but to explain it in a single sentence with dictionary like terms, "conventionally feminine" is the best i can think of. Like if you had to describe loli characters would you write about the cuteness and head-to-body proportions? Or would you just write "child-like appearance" and leave it at that?

i'll admit i'm not familiar with this, but I'm pretty sure looking feminine isn't the defintion of tomgirl irl tim henson looks conventionally feminine, but he's not a tomgirl, at least in my limited experience on the other hand, a burly ass masculine body-builder can cross-dress but idt that makes him a tomgirl either. i can get behind re-describing the current description, but i think that there are some things that this proposal misses out on

To futher explain why the distinction is important, there is the entire sub-genre of "josou seme" where the crossdressing boy doesn't act like a girl and might play the dominant role. The "josou" part means "crossdressing in women's clothing", while "seme" in japanese slang means the top in gay relation or the dominant one. Examples can be easily found by searching for "josou seme", and couple of examples I know of - #366915 | Kinpatsu Tsuma no Otomodachi | The Blon… | 72,435 , #512173 | Kyokon Otokonoko ni Kanojo ga Netoraret… | 4,715 So the current description that tries to define this trope by behavior of the character is wrong. And for crossdressing, it's a very common factor but still optional. Vast majority of these stories will involve crossdressing, but rarely there are characters that are drawn to look like a girl without including crossdressing. Some examples - #289187 | Hajimemashite, Natsu | 4,228 #220084 | Pikapako | 1,757 #642040 | Ko Link-kun Hajimete no Easter-sai | Ki… | 558 #155922 | Hime Aigan | Princess Toy (The Legend o… | 6,108 #96098 | Hiraita Anata ni Kuchibiru wo | 1,120 #49193 | Kazuma-kun no Ecchi Hon | Kazuma-kun’s… | 1,400 And this is another error with the current description as it states "prefers feminine clothing", but in all comedy or rape stories the character is forced into crossdressing.