tag yuri rape
Tag description cis female or a group of cis female raping a female
note No tag for that, there is rape for male to female, reverse rape for female to male.
15 Comments
fuckriri1234
[1/4]
To be clear, I ended my rant by saying that my definitions (gendered centers/victims) were mainly for groups like harem & gangbang, and that using it for "rape" galleries was purely for standard. I was wrong in that later proposal in that a gendered center/victim shouldn't be applied to "rape" at all.
Instead, we should indeed opt for these yuri/yaoi/straight rape sub-tags. One issue still arises though. Yuri/yaoi is same-sex so the perpetrator/victim gender doesn't really matter. "Straight rape" is not the same as it contains both male on female ("regular") rape, and female on male ("reverse") rape.
Instead, it might be better to adopt a naming system similar to what we use for threesomes: mm, ff, mf, fm rape where the first letter is the perpetrator, the second is the victim's gender. Or if we want even more clarity, male-on-male, female-on-female, male-on-female, and female-on-male rape.
fuckriri1234
[2/4]
This seems clear enough, removes the need for "reverse rape," and clearly delineates their status as a sub-tag of "rape." We can introduce/discuss trans rape as well, would like to hear your thoughts so far.
@Osamu09
> Reverse rape and yuri rape specify both the victims and perpetrators gender
As does the above system. Also, "reverse rape" (female on male) is the issue. The reverse of "reverse rape" would logically be "rape" and constitute (male on female) rape. But "rape" is the general tag of non-consent. It is not and should not be (male on female) rape specifically.
> With female rapist + yuri, you can technically get works with "reverse rape" and no "yuri rape" or viceversa
Fair enough: a woman rapes a man (reverse rape & female rapist), but the gallery also contains a non-rape yuri sequence.
fuckriri1234
[3/4]
However, we can remove the "female rapist" tag altogether with the above system which defines both perpetrator's and victim's genders. You also wouldn't need the "yuri" tag in a search query since fem on fem rape is inherently yuri (though the gallery should still tag it as yuri; just noting it would be redundant in a search)
> The same concept applies to "female harem", it can be either all male partners, all female partners, or anything in between.
Not entirely true. My third message has examples of how you can combine tags to get both the center's and group's genders, for most cases.
fuckriri1234
[4/4]
@pornupine
I did not think the "rape" part through too much initially, just that "reverse" makes no sense. In my new proposal, it would apply to whatever gender the character/s are portrayed as (i.e. a male raping a transfem would still fit under male-on-female rape)
This becomes an issue with tomboys and tomgirls (femboy) as well as gender benders where the character might be more than one gender.
We could add trans to the naming, but that would quickly balloon the amount of tags we have (i.e. male on trans, trans on trans). Maybe a general "trans rape" tag which ignores perpetrator's gender and only identifies the victim as trans (whether fem or male).
I'm not too familiar with this side of the site honestly, so I'd definitely need other opinions on the best way to add non-cisgender to the mix.
Pornupine
@fuckriri1234 I'm a big fan of umbrella and sub tags. For tags with a group-on-one dynamic it makes sense to have the descriptor align with the one. Ultimately because nhentai tags don't include a gender namespace it complicates narrowing the search (and further complicated because the source for nehentai content does use name spaces.)
Just to be clear should the description be "raping a female" or "raping a cis female"?
Osamu09
@fuckriri1234 in the end it's a matter of pragmatism vs definitions. And I understand wanting definitions to make sense, but I believe that some exceptions should be made here and there
Osamu09
@fuckriri1234 what you're saying makes a lot of sense. However it's not a complete solution either. For example, if you search for "female rapist" + "yuri" you can technically get works with "reverse rape" and no "yuri rape" or viceversa. The same concept applies to "female harem", it can be either all male partners, all female partners, or anything in between. And the anything in between is the main issue. In most cases people are looking for specifically one of the other two. Even if the anything in between happens it's usually a tomboy or tomgirl/femboy, which I believe should still count as a default harem or reverse harem. In other words "reverse rape", "yuri rape", etc. specify both the victim and perpetrator at the same time, which is more useful than specifying only one. Alternatively we could have tags for both the perpetrator and the victim, such as "female rape" and create tag female rapist +5. But that's even more subdivision
Gisa_Alpha_Giga
Idk, I still even feel that the tag I suggested isn't yet a solution to this problem
After all, you've to find a solution to the problem that satisfies every case just like @fuckriri1234 said, but also I agree with @Osamu09 said, you'd have problem finding a specific tag, and add to the confusion people adding "femdom" to "rape" where it shouldn't exist, because "femdom" doesn't mean the other partner didn't consent to it. Here are examples having this problem
#661078 | Suana | 2,189
#598284 | Mirror Maiden Lv.200 in Inazuma | 3,366
#480367 | Dennou Shoujo wa Kasou Sekai ni Shizumi… | 12,257
And the works of this artist #440062 | Uchi no Ko ga H na Teki to Tatakat te H… | 5,173
These has the issues mentioned of including "femdom" yet there is no consent, attempting to search "yuri" + "rape" might not get all works like these ones adding to the problem some doujins having no tags at all which might bury the works
Still, imo separating umbrella tags might be a solution to this damn mess
fuckriri1234
[1/3]
@Osamu09 gangbang, harem, and rape share this problem. They are definitively umbrella tags, but the "reverse" descriptor perpetuates the idea that they're not.
The mere presence and current definitions of reverse gangbang/harem/rape implies that gangbang is a group of men on a woman, thag rape is a man on a woman, and that harem is women for a man.
In actuality, they're genderless and general: gangbang -> group on single. Harem -> group for single. Rape -> general non-consent (one (or more) assaults one (or more)). Of course, I'm ignoring the dynamics in each tag for simplicity
In other words, the discussion of "reverse" tags is counter-productive
fuckriri1234
[2/3]
With the umbrellas established, we create sub-tags where we use gender as a descriptor as it relates to the "victim" (or center) INSTEAD of the group (counter-intuitive, I know, but the victim is the only constant in all scenarios).
Imagine a mixed-gender harem (3 men, 2 women) vying for a single woman. Had we defined male or female harems as gendered groups, then the tag would instrinsically exclude this example.
With my proposal, it would become a female harem in that the woman is the center of the group. Since the group itself is definitively genderless, it includes the example.
The purpose of this standard is to include non-heterosexual and possibly non-cisgender galleries. Notably, the umbrella tag and these sub-tags would make searching especially easy albeit a bit difficult
fuckriri1234
[3/3]
For example:
Bisexual harem -> harem + bisexual
Straight harem -> harem - yaoi - yuri - bisexual
Gay harem (males approaching a male) -> male harem + yaoi (- bisexual) (+ males only). The initial 2-part query can return a bisexual harem (i.e. the group is mixed-gender but there is a single page of yaoi). Blacklisting the bisexual tag removes such works as does inclusion of the males only tag
Revert the genders to get lesbian harem
Messages 2 & 3 examined group dynamics for gangbang and harem, but they don't really apply to rape. However, the gender should still apply to the victim of rape to maintain standard. I.e. female rape -> a woman was raped. It also just makes grammatical sense imo
Ultimately, there are numerous ways to combine and blacklist tags with these definitions. It also eliminates the confusion that "reverse" brings to their corresponding umbrella tags. I know it overhauls the current understanding, but I think the new tagging system will sort itself out
Osamu09
anyway for this suggestion, the current description of "rape" is "Sexual acts forced on a non-consenting partner.". Which I think should be updated to exclude reverse rape. If we should also do the same for "yuri rape" and "yaoi rape" I'm not sure. But there is a good argument in favor of that. Unless you specify "females only" or "males only", it's really hard to find a work where rape is perpetrated by the same sex. The only argument against that is to avoid making so many tags, but for a tag as common as "rape" I think it's fine to separate it in different tags. On the plus side that also allows for searching works where there's more than 1 type of rape, as well as it lets us search for more specific scenarios such as ["threesome ffm" "yuri rape"]
I think the pros outweight the cons. The main con being either rape having to exclude all the other types, including all other types, or having a different name. Personally I'd rather it excluded all other types
Osamu09
I also thought that @lotlover had a point. But in the specific case of "reverse rape" it's not that simple. Reverse rape isn't actually femdom + rape. As a matter of fact I just tried looking for "reverse rape" -femdom and it's about 1/5 of the "reverse rape" works. And I checked some of the works, it's not about just femdom missing. The issue is that femdom has to imply a very clear dynamic. If it's just about the female being active rather than passive, that's not femdom. Reverse rape just means they start the sexual activity by force/blackmail
fuckriri1234
agree with lotllover.
lotllover
Arguably, I think reverse rape should be deprecated. It’s just rape either way. You should just be able to search for rape + femdom for reverse rape, rape + yuri for yuri rape, rape + yaoi for yaoi rape, and then maybe include a maledom tag for more classic rape scenarios…